Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 05:34:00 EST
From: ideesun <ideesun@club-internet.fr>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ibogaine@ibogaine.org>
Subject: Re: In the forests with the Bwiti
Howard,
we are a group of white and black people and did not appreciate at all
your being ironic and contemptuous about our message. Plus, we didn't
know you had difficulties reading english. Therefore we feel we need to
inform in a more precise way and throw again our first message so
everybody can read it.
--------------------------
ENOUGH TALKS
BWITI doctors organise on location a Tabernanthe Iboga cure for narcotic
withdrawal : opiates, cocaine, etc..., under medical control.
Location: Central Africa.
Duration: seven days
total cost: 6000 us $ .everything included but plane ticket (more or
less 700 us $ from Europe).
HOW
On the first day, an english or spanish or french speaking person (could
be the same one) is waiting for you at the african airport, and takes
you to the hotel where you are going to spend the first night.
Rest.
Then, meet the staff:
- the Bwiti doctor (he or she) and al.
- a regular african doctor (graduate from European school)
- one or two of our group
After both aborigines and regular medical tests, we have dinner and
spend the evening altogether conversing about what is Bwiti, what is
going to happen during the cure, how, questions, requests, another bier?
>From the second to fifth day, the Tabernanthe Iboga cure.
Departure to the village where you are hosted and cure at the Bwiti
location. Bwiti doctor you have met give you T. Iboga plain root and
bark root orally. He or she closely follows and guides you during the
whole journey (remember he's taken iboga too and need very little
sleep), is supported by Bwiti musicians, and of course allows a constant
and quiet watching over by the regular doctor. And one of us.
The T. Iboga journey lasts about two days.
The two other days on location are dedicated to recovering, and
clarifying talks with the Bwiti.
On the sixth day, you go back to the hotel for the night. Spend the
evening with us prospect how each individual can organise his home
post-cure.
You go back to the airport on the next day.
While flying , wonder why nobody has organised it before.
answers to your mail, starting the 11/07/97.
E. Talks"
----------------------------
HSL123@aol.com wrote:
> In the forests with the Bwiti
Who said we were in the forest? We are located there fifteen minutes
from a main city and airport. We use cars on a real concrete road.
> Emails concerning treatment via Bwiti initiation were sent to this
> For obvious reasons or possibly for ones not obvious I was not
> copied on the solicitation for treatment via Bwiti initiations.
Well, we though you were cured!
Or do you feel like a sort of Ibogaine Master the entire world has to
refer to?
We remind you of the people you came up to and took the plant from, of
the hundred of years of ibogaine administration in Africa, of our
enormous experience nobody else can match. Unless you believe African
Rain Forest culture is worth shit...
> Here are my comments. First, I think any individual who can make it
> through the Bwiti initiation will have a good chance of breaking
> their addiction.
> How long that may last, that is an individual matter.
We said: CURE. BWITI C U R E .Which means we put up a Bwiti cure for
detoxication, with bwiti ngangas, that are traditional doctors with
official patent from government. Their job is to cure.
> > BWITI doctors organise on location a Tabernanthe Iboga cure for narcotic
> >withdrawal : opiates, cocaine, etc..., under medical control.
> Exactly what does "under medical control" mean.
Bwiti have their own way for diagnosis ; the "Mother" asks
the patient's ancestors for approval. They refuse when the patient have
physical or psychological disorders that would jeopardise his life or
mental health (mother's interpretation based on secular practice).
Of course, even though security is respected, we wouldn't have patient
travel to Africa for a refusal. Therefore, we ask for previous analysis
checked by casual doctor on location and, so far, never had health
trouble nor Bwiti refusal.
You've probably read this from G.
Let's make it clearer
Three steps:
1/ Previous analysis from the patient's country are requested. Contacts
are made with home doctors or group Associations.
2/ Analysis are checked in Africa by black african doctor graduated from
french universities(some even go study in the States, you know), that
will follow the whole cure. our doctor can eventually ask for more
informations or analysis before agreeing and refuse if he thinks it
would be harmful for patient.
3/ When patient is on location, we ask for Bwiti approval from the
"mother". Understand ancestor refusal means physical or psychological
disorders that would endanger patien's health. Just a question of
vocabulary. Understand: If analysis are o.k., ancestors approve.
we cross two different diagnosis from two different approaches of
medicine for best security. Can you do that?
> Is it a sanctioned medical
> treatment or if something goes wrong are you out in the forest by your
> lonesome?
Not in the forest. Not alone.
> > Location: Central Africa.
>
> Where?
UDEAC.
> > Duration: seven days
> >total cost: 6000 us $ .everything included but plane ticket >(more or
> >less 700 us $ from Europe).
>
> These costs are in keeping with our new prices for hospital administered
> treatment in Panama. I would prefer the safety of the hospital but, some
> will prefer the adventure of the forest.
Has young Howard got lost in a forest, in his childhood?
> >HOW
> >On the first day, an english or spanish or french speaking >person (could
> >be the same one) is waiting for you at the african airport, and takes
> >you to the hotel where you are going to spend the first night.
> >Rest.
>
> Who is responsible for supplying the narcotics until treatment? What happens
> if you are caught coming through customs with narcotics?
No problems.
> > Then, meet the staff:
> > - the Bwiti doctor (he or she) and al.
> > - a regular african doctor (graduate from europeen school)
> > - one or two of our group
> > After both aborigines and regular medical tests, we have dinner
> >and spend the evening altogether conversing about what is Bwiti,
> > what is going to happen during the cure, how, questions,
> > requests, another bier?
> What happens if you get there and don't pass physical testing?
cf supra "three steps"
> When do you pay? Is there an immediate refund if you are rejected?
What about you in Panama?
> > From the second to fifth day, the Tabernanthe Iboga cure.
> > Departure to the village where you are hosted and cure at the Bwiti
> > location. Bwiti doctor you have met give you T. Iboga plain root and
> > bark root orally. He or she closely follows and guides you during the
> > whole journey (remember he's taken iboga too and need very little
> > sleep), is supported by Bwiti musicians, and of course allows a constant
> > and quiet watching over by the regular doctor. And one of us.
> > The T. Iboga journey lasts about two days.
> > The two other days on location are dedicated to recovering, and
> > clarifying talks with the Bwiti.
>
> What happens if the patient can't keep the iboga root down and remains junk
> sick? Who supplies the narcotics and which narcotics and how about the trip
> home?
We noted that the cozy Bwiti atmosphere, initiates, musicians help a
great deal in eating the root. It tastes awful. It is terrible. But
aren't we dealing with will power in cases of drug detox.? Think about
it;You go to wild wild Africa, eat a terrible stuff in an unusual
environment means you already took a good step toward freedom... It is
why Bwiti prefer to administrate root scrapings. But when metabolism
can't take it(means you vomit), there are other methods: Automatic or
abstracts.
>
> > On the sixth day, you go back to the hotel for the night. Spend the
> > evening with us prospect how each individual can organise his home
> > post-cure.
>
> Sounds very cozy.
We previously got in touch with the patient's doctor, psychologist or
Association he was sent from. Home doctors or Associations take over the
postcure. We wish we'd be all around the world for providing postcures,
but we are not, neither are you.
>
> >You go back to the airport on the next day.
> >While flying , wonder why nobody has organised it before.
>
> The reason I never initiated such a program is that I would not want the
> responsibility of a group of narcotic addicts in a foreign country without
> official government and official medical oversight. It is an enormous amount
> of responsibility. But, I am open to know what happens and would be
> delighted to hear the results of the venture.
Ho!
who wrote this?
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 23:23:06 -0500 (EST)
From: HSL123@aol.com
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org
Subject: Bwiti Nganga
Message-ID: <970320232305_109258583@emout07.mail.aol.com>
List,
A Bwiti Nganga has been contacted who is willing to accept initiates on
a case by case basis. Any persons intersted please email me off list.
You will have to speak French or go to Africa with a person fluent in
French.
Howard
>
> Caveat emptor (the buyer beware).
>
> In this case I would advise the seller to beware also.
>
> Howard
Enough Talks.
ps:
How dared someone pretend to sell other people's religion?
How much for a jewish baptism?
Do you have christian stuff too?