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    <title>Phorum 5</title>
    <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/index.php</link>
    <description><![CDATA[]]></description>
    <language>EN</language>
    <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 06:40:14 -0700</pubDate>
    <lastBuildDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 06:40:14 -0700</lastBuildDate>
    <category>Phorum 5</category>
    <generator>Phorum 5.1.23</generator>
    <ttl>600</ttl>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: share experience</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,29,30#msg-30</link>
      <author>chris</author>
      <description><![CDATA[I too have noticed that my testicles are easier to keep in my inguinal canals - at least it got easier during the first months, and stayed that much easier since then. I also noticed that they were more likely to go back into the inguinal canals even when I wasn't trying to keep them there, but it was still a minority of the time and I hadn't tried discontinuing the method for any length of time (over the past ten years) to see if that would be a problem and if it might reverse itself. That effect hasn't really bothered or worried me. Sometimes I think I notice that my testicles are smaller than they were before I started the method years ago, but other days they seem to be the normal size, and again I don't know if this is a reversible effect of the method or not. Also, if they are slightly smaller, that might explain why they go into the inguinal canals easier, and if the smaller size is due to the cells missing due to heating, then both problems should be reversible.
  Libido seems a bit less, but then I've gone from age 30 to age 40 while using the method, so I would expect libido to decrease due to age. I plan to have my serum chemistry tested for testosterone the next time I get a chance, to see if the level is within the normal range. I haven't noticed any health problems I would attribute to abnormal hormone levels.]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,29,30#msg-30</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 06:40:14 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] share experience</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,29,29#msg-29</link>
      <author>aaasss</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Hi all. 
1 month ago, I've started trying contraception method you described based on artificial cryptorchidism.
I've to say that, at first, I found a bit uncorfortable keeping testicles in the canals especially when I have an erection (it happens! :) ) because my penis presses  on my testicles causing a bit of pain.
During the first week I've been also having some problems keeping the testes firm in the canals without slipping back in my scrotum.
That said, now the situation seems more stable and I'm quite used to the new &quot;condition&quot;. My sperm count has dropped to almost a million and motility has been greatly impaired: i'm sterile.
One thing I've noticed is that my testes have become a bit smaller and softer since the beginning, but nothing significant for the moment...
Another thing I've noticed is that, day after day, it's more difficult to keep testicles in the scrotum on their original place. For example, when I go to the swimming pool, I prefer to keep them &quot;down&quot; but, lately, they tend to go back to their new home? Is it normal? Will I be able to discontinue this method if I continue for longer periods?

I'd like to know more about your experience, especially for those of you who're using this method since more time. Does it have side effects (libido, testicles size, etc...)? How do you keep you tests in the canals avoiding they go back to the scrotum?]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,29,29#msg-29</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 03:40:52 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Welcome</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,6,28#msg-28</link>
      <author>stephen</author>
      <description><![CDATA[hi chris,
thanks for the detailed account of your experience.  i just recently started reading about the heat method and became fascinated, and and at the same time frustrated at the lack of medical literature/ publication.  i was so anxious to start heating, that i didnt, and still havnt done a baseline reading.  i am 1 week into using a heating pad for 45 minutes/day.  i am going to do this for at least 3 weeks.  i am going to also back it up with the ultrasound method; 10 minutes, 1-3 episodes.  i wish i had taken a baseline, but will be able to see at a later date if i am above or below workable threshold.
thanks again!
-stephen]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,6,28#msg-28</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:26:39 -0800</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Greetings</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,27#msg-27</link>
      <author>quazi</author>
      <description><![CDATA[I really hope this thread is not dead. I would like to know what your results were after 15 weeks. Also, I'm curious how you performed the heat bath. What did you use, a wax warmer, or did you totally immerse your body? I've considered using this method in the past, but I was turned off because I wasn't sure how to go about giving myself a 45 min heat bath every day. Thanks.]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,27#msg-27</guid>
      <pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:58:53 -0800</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Positioning testes in abdomen</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,5,26#msg-26</link>
      <author>chris</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 07:35:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Jenks
To: Bug-a-Lugs
Subject: Re: Your experimental birth control method

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007, Bug-a-Lugs wrote:

&gt;Thanks for your response.
&gt;
&gt;Since I wrote my original e-mail I've been doing further research both
&gt;with the aid of google and in my collection of medical books. Sorry, I
&gt;haven't found anything about the size of inguinal canals. I don't
&gt;really think the medical industry is interested in them except for the
&gt;correction of cryptorchidism in infants and retractile testes in young
&gt;boys.
&gt;
&gt;However it's in the area of pediatric urology and particularly
&gt;pediatric surgery that the best information can be found. I came
&gt;across a picture of an MD working on a ~ 8 year old boy with the boy
&gt;on his back with his legs apart and the MD is pushing a bump (like a
&gt;marble) in his abdomen down towards the scrotum. Eureka! The inguinal
&gt;canal passes OVER the pubic bone.

Oops. I could have told you that. Sorry. In the actual experience of moving my testicles it doesn't seem like there is any kind of &quot;canal&quot; at all - I'm just moving them under the skin. I imagine if I had a marble implanted under the skin of my hand, and could manipulate it over to my wrist, it would be a similar experience. The only difference is that there is some kind of restraint, a tether, that keeps the testicles from moving higher than about an inch above the penis, and of course keeps each testicle on its respective side.

&gt; This is of vital importance to my interest and certainly gives the lie to one
&gt; website that says Summo wrestlers train from puberty to retract their testes
&gt; into their inguinal canals to make them less vulnerable. BS! It's difficult to
&gt; think of any more vulnerable place. Anyway don't they have cups in Japan?

  Yes, it is definitely a more vulnerable place. When my cat jumps up on
my belly when I am laying down and steps in the wrong place, it isn't cool. Good thing I don't have a dog!

&gt; So back to my own experiments with my own body. I think that I've
&gt; detected the entrance to the inguinal canal on one side (the key is to
&gt; do this lying down and not standing in the shower as I did before). I
&gt; can insert a finger but the distance is limited by the amount of loose
&gt; scrotum. I can painlessly move a testicle into position for a second
&gt; or so but I haven't been able to press it into the canal not because
&gt; of the size but because manipulating my testes is like trying to
&gt; control a ball of Jello in an bag of oil. I think that going any
&gt; further in this direction will have to await my next PCP visit in
&gt; about six months.

  I actually think it may be easier sitting upright because there is less tension on the skin along the pubic bone, so the testicle can pass under it more easily. It is also a little easier for the testicles to stay in place when sitting for the same reason. I have much less slipping when I am programming than when I am doing construction.

&gt; My earlier assumptions that the inguinal rings were like the anal
&gt; sphincter were clearly wrong. The &quot;ring&quot; seems to be nothing more than
&gt; landmark ... the entrance and exit of the canals ... with no ability
&gt; to hold anything in place. Thus the Summo wrestler would soon find his
&gt; testes dropping back into his scrotum especially with any sort of
&gt; abdominal pressure. This also means than any contraceptive idea must
&gt; include a pad, ball, or something more permanent (the stitching in the
&gt; Egyptian study, for example) to keep the testes up there.

  Right, and that's why I haven't been concerned about getting my testicles back into the scrotum. Using stitches just shows a grievous lack of imagination.

&gt; As to the natural variance in size of the testicle vs the inguinal
&gt; canal among different men, I can't really address this as I have no
&gt; idea of the inguinal canal sizes of even males for whom I have some
&gt; idea as to testicle size (e.g., porno movies). On a related item I can
&gt; however say that with myself your yarn/rubber band method would never
&gt; work. I don't have enough spare scrotum even in warm conditions and in
&gt; cold my Dartos muscle contracts the skin of the scrotum so that the
&gt; testes are all huddled up close to each other tight against the base
&gt; of the penis. Works similarly in a flight or flee situation. Any
&gt; non-pain-causing rubber band would fly off any time I walked into a
&gt; cold (e.g. air conditioned) room. Only a ball or some form of pressure
&gt; pad would keep them in place.

  Fly off? Drop off, maybe, if it had no tension and the penis was
pointing down, not up.

&gt; But, not to rain on your parade, I do have some sobering suggestions
&gt; and comments:
&gt;
&gt; I'm not happy with the studies that are available.

  Me neither, which is why I posted my results to the web, hoping to get other interested and ultimately get testicular heating the professional investigation it deserves.

&gt; Not only are the numbers of men pitifully few and the durations ridiculously
&gt; short but there's something about each major group that makes me say, &quot;If he's
&gt; so careless about this, how can I rely on his other information.&quot; In Mieusset's
&gt; case he abjectly grovels apologizing for his misuse of the term &quot;retractile
&gt; testes&quot; in a previous study. How could someone on the cutting edge of this area
&gt; be so ignorant. One wonders what else...

&gt; In the Egyptian study the guy mentions the drop in testosterone and
&gt; the biopsy of the testes showing degeneration of the seminiferous
&gt; tubules for which I give him credit but then he talks about &quot;2 - 300&quot;
&gt; stitches in the scrotum to hold the testicle in place. Yikes, can you
&gt; imagine how long this would take, and there's no sewing machine! What
&gt; about the swelling and continuing pain when the lidocaine wears off?
&gt; Who approved these studies anyway? Personally I think the 2 - 300 is a
&gt; typo. There's a couple of other typo-type defects and I simply don't
&gt; believe the crap about electricity and polyester underwear.

&gt; I'm not going through the nitty-gritty about the standards for a male
&gt; contraceptive, the closest to fruition being the T replacement with
&gt; some progesterone, but all seem to miss out on some very important,
&gt; perhaps THE most important characteristics of any device or drug: It
&gt; must provide the same level of sexual performance during and after use
&gt; as the subject had before (an improvement would be acceptable ).

  Scientific measurements have their place, but what reassured me the most when I was considering this method were reports of the men who had used this method, especially those working with Dr. Vogeli, who did not find any problems related to libido, sexual performance or enjoyment, or observable changes in their bodies. And then there is my own experience which corroborates those reports. Since I didn't start using this until my early thirties, I was quite familiar with what sex was like both before and after starting the method, and I haven't noticed any difference. Even so, I've intended to get my testosterone measured the next time I have a serum assay, not because I am having problems but so I can share the results. Testicular heating doesn't have to be ideal, since the alternatives are far from ideal.

&gt; Sexual performance includes libido measured objectively by
&gt; psychogenic, reflexogenic, and nocturnal erections, the ability to
&gt; maintain an erection to ejaculation, the same or better ejaculatory
&gt; latency, the same or better quantity and force of ejaculation, and the
&gt; same (probably difficult to measure) orgasmic sensation. As usual the
&gt; medical industry glosses over these aspects as they did with the
&gt; progesterone-containing and libido-lowering female contraceptive pill.
&gt; What I fear is that they'll come out with a one-size-fits-all solution
&gt; and you'll have to debate the issue with your PCP to have your T
&gt; increased or similar.

&gt; In the T replacement studies however there's substantial analysis of
&gt; what's happening at the cellular level. For your method there's
&gt; nothing.

  Actually there is a ton of research on the relationship between heat and spermatogenesis, but as you can see from the forum, people aren't exactly breaking down my door to get more information. I figure when people are really interested, then I might invest more time in digging up and posting the research.

&gt; For the replacement T method there's obvious degeneration of
&gt; both the Sertoli and Leydig cells which will eventually lead to
&gt; atrophy (your balls will shrink to pea-size (maybe this is why you can
&gt; easily absorb them into your inguinal canal)). If they touch on it at
&gt; all they rely (as do your studies) on future pregnancies to show that
&gt; all is well. No mention of sexual performance and far too short to see
&gt; any long-term damage. The idea is that the cells will regenerate and
&gt; you'll return to your previous state but this is not a given. We don't
&gt; even know under the heat method what is the mechanism of action. Does
&gt; the heat interfere with the Leydig cells so they don't produce T? Or
&gt; does it interfere with the synthesis of sperm in the Sertoli cell
&gt; only?

  Like I said, I started this in my thirties and my balls haven't noticeably changed in size. A friend of mine once mentioned that his testicles grew significantly when he reached 40 or so (which I am now), and mine haven't, so maybe this heating is preventing the natural enlargement of my testicles. Much as I might like to boast, to be macho, that my balls are the size of pomegranates, I admit they have always been about the size of grapes.
  My rough understanding of the mechanism is that heat interferes with a stage of development of spermatocytes. The cells are still being produced normally up to that stage.

&gt; You might think you're doing the natural thing (no chemicals) but so
&gt; is looking into the sun. And so is sunning yourself on the beach as a
&gt; kid. The damage may not be immediate but when it comes it's not just
&gt; ga-ga 90 year olds who suffer.

  I know that natural doesn't mean safe, but it definitely has the advantages of independence and accessibility that most other methods lack. I would like there to be more assurance of safety - more studies and sharing of information.

&gt; OK, enough gloom. If I were you I'd have my sex hormone (T,E,
&gt; Prolactin etc) levels checked frequently.

  That's been the next thing I had in mind.

&gt; I didn't realize you ran a forum (I should read the whole thing first,
&gt; eh ) so if you want to post our exchanges there, I have no
&gt; objection. Just don't disclose my real e-mail address.

  I'll take you up on that - the forum can certainly use some activity. If you would like to continue our discussion, please post there.

  Yours,

    Chris

&gt;On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 16:19:10 -0700 (PDT), Chris Jenks wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;   I've received a few comments from people who were interested in this
&gt;&gt; method of birth control, but were unable to move their testicles into the
&gt;&gt; inguinal canals. It hasn't been clear if these complaints were due to not
&gt;&gt; understanding, or (what I suspect) variations in the size of the inguinal
&gt;&gt; canal between men. In each case I've replied that this movement, for
&gt;&gt; myself, seemed rather natural given that it occured spontaneously on
&gt;&gt; occasion, and that there shouldn't be any discomfort associated with the
&gt;&gt; movement. Also, I'm pretty sure the French study also involved holding the
&gt;&gt; testicles in the inguinal canals, so I reasoned that it couldn't be very
&gt;&gt; rare to be able to do this. If you find any report of the variation in the
&gt;&gt; size of the inguinal canal, I would be interested. I've been using this
&gt;&gt; method continuously, and my testicles are located about an inch above my
&gt;&gt; pubic bone, behind my pubic hair.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;   Yours,
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;     Chris
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Sun, 28 Oct 2007, Bug-a-Lugs wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Hopefully this won't lead to spam and viruses ....
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Interesting concept (testicular heat) but I'm not sure you'll have too
&gt;&gt;&gt; many users given the decrease in T referred to in the Egyptian
&gt;&gt;&gt; studies.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I wasn't actually looking for a male contraceptive but for information
&gt;&gt;&gt; regarding the possibility of re-inserting the testes into the inguinal
&gt;&gt;&gt; canals and keeping them there primarily as a cosmetic device. This
&gt;&gt;&gt; should result in just an empty scrotum flapping in the breeze so to
&gt;&gt;&gt; speak. Unfortunately this sort of information seems to escape the
&gt;&gt;&gt; notice of the anatomy book writers and where the main components
&gt;&gt;&gt; (inguinal canals and testes) are mentioned the descriptions are
&gt;&gt;&gt; infuriatingly vague.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; On the male contraceptives.org  website (your link) the &quot;How does it
&gt;&gt;&gt; work&quot; paragraph says, &quot;... Suspensories do just that: a custom brief
&gt;&gt;&gt; holds the testes close to the body, warming the testes to body
&gt;&gt;&gt; temperature. ...&quot; and then in the next paragraph &quot;... Their results
&gt;&gt;&gt; showed that men who wore one suspensory design with a rubber ring to
&gt;&gt;&gt; hold the testes in the inguinal canals had 100% effective
&gt;&gt;&gt; contraception.&quot; To my mind &quot;hold[ing] the testes close to the body&quot;
&gt;&gt;&gt; and &quot;hold[ing] the testes in the inguinal canals&quot; are two very
&gt;&gt;&gt; different things.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; In my understanding of the anatomy the end of the inguinal canal (of
&gt;&gt;&gt; which there are two) closes over the spermatic cord and the vas
&gt;&gt;&gt; deferens somewhat like the anal sphincter. The inguinal canal was
&gt;&gt;&gt; intended to pass a testicle the size of a pea so I have considerable
&gt;&gt;&gt; difficulty in suspending disbelief when I read that someone has pushed
&gt;&gt;&gt; his adult-sized testes past the inguinal ring into the canal.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; You yourself say, &quot;... this is most conveniently done by bringing the
&gt;&gt;&gt; testicles closer to the body.&quot; and then &quot; ... It became less and less
&gt;&gt;&gt; likely that I would find that my testicles had left my abdomen,
&gt;&gt;&gt; perhaps because the space they filled had adjusted to them. Soon I
&gt;&gt;&gt; didn't need to check any more because my testicles usually remained in
&gt;&gt;&gt; my abdomen until the rubber band was removed, and I learned to feel
&gt;&gt;&gt; when they left. At no time was it difficult to release my testicles
&gt;&gt;&gt; back to the scrotum.&quot;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; You're not only saying they can be pushed but they'll slip into the
&gt;&gt;&gt; inguinal canal almost without your knowledge but then the earlier
&gt;&gt;&gt; comment seems to indicate just a pulling up of them by reducing the
&gt;&gt;&gt; size of the scrotum.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; No only do I have trouble with the re-insertion concept because of the
&gt;&gt;&gt; anatomy (or my understanding thereof) but I can't even find my own
&gt;&gt;&gt; inguinal canals and I can't begin to imagine the pain, retching, and
&gt;&gt;&gt; vomiting that would occur if I were trying to slip a testicle through
&gt;&gt;&gt; something tighter than my anus. No lubrication either! Even more
&gt;&gt;&gt; worrying would be the possibility of crushing the vas or the spermatic
&gt;&gt;&gt; cord in trying to push them in first. And then there's the getting
&gt;&gt;&gt; them out again problem which you pass over very quickly with &quot;At no
&gt;&gt;&gt; time was it difficult to release my testicles back to the scrotum.&quot;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Just how do you release them? I can't begin to envisage a method.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Now all that said I can see the possibility of the re-insertion in an
&gt;&gt;&gt; infant and even a pre-pubertal boy due to much smaller size.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I must be missing something here. Could you please explain.]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,5,26#msg-26</guid>
      <pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:25:42 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Greetings</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,25#msg-25</link>
      <author>Silas</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Oops!

Did I say t+6 weeks was 6 weeks after *finishing* the regimen?

I re-checked my detailed notes and realized I'd goofed;  it was actually 6 weeks after starting,  or *3* weeks after finishing (the entire regimen is 21 days start to finish).

I just dropped off my t+15 weeks (12 weeks post-regimen) sample at the lab and should have results within a couple weeks.  Will post again once I have them.

Cheers,

Silas]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,25#msg-25</guid>
      <pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:28:51 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Greetings</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,24#msg-24</link>
      <author>Silas</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Hi Chris,

I followed Dr. Vogeli's regimen exactly as I saw it described from her original notes (as duplicated on several male b.c websites).  The water temperature I used should give me six to eight months of infertility.

It *is* too bad I'm not doing more tests.   That said,  just this one test piqued my doctor's interest to the point where he's now talking about publishing,  if I'm willing to let my sperm count get back up to normal levels,  then doing it again with more regular tests.. probably next year.   I imagine I'll take him up on it,  because I find it just as fascinating and don't mind playing the guinea pig.

Cheers,

Silas]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,24#msg-24</guid>
      <pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 05:24:26 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Test results from t+6 weeks</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,23#msg-23</link>
      <author>chris</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Dear Silas,

  Thanks for the update. I don't really know what to expect from Dr. Voegeli's hot bath method, since I use daily body heating, but her report sounded so successful that it seems like it should be effective. My guess is that the count would drop from normal to insignificant over a few weeks, somewhere around the six week point. It's too bad you can't test more often, like around nine weeks. Did you follow the regimen that was supposed to provide infertility for six months?

  Yours,

    Chris]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,23#msg-23</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:39:05 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Test results from t+6 weeks</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,22#msg-22</link>
      <author>Silas</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Well, I finally got the results from my test at t+6 weeks (that is, 6 weeks after finishing the heat regimen).

Raw results,  from a 4 mL semen sample:

Motility:  30%  (normal &gt; 50%)
Activity score: 1 (normal &gt; 2)
Forward progression: 1 (normal &gt; 2)
Concentration: 3 mil/mL (normal 20-40 mil/mL)
Total count: 12 mil (normal &gt; 80 mil)
Live: 28% (normal &gt; 50%)

To me,  this is encouraging.  I do not have a baseline to compare to,  but given that I had no difficulty fathering four children previous to starting the heat regimen,  I can reasonably assume I was close to normal.

My doctor agreed that the results were significant.   Not good enough for a primary method of birth control,  but significant.

I will post again once I have the results from t+18 weeks.  I think that 6 weeks may not have been enough to flush all the live sperm from my system,  given that I've seen claims that human spermatogenesis is anywhere from a 6 week to 9 week cycle.

Cheers,

Silas]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,22#msg-22</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 06:52:51 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Greetings</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,21#msg-21</link>
      <author>Silas</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Interesting Chris.. I've heard everything from 6 weeks to 9 weeks now.  I'm still waiting for the results from t+6 weeks,  and intend to take the other test regardless at t+18 weeks (my last free test),  by which point the damage to whatever critical cells should have been done,  and done long enough,  to be effective (if it is indeed effective at all!).

While researching this, I found a paper (which I should have bookmarked, dammit!) that examined the various bits involved in spermatorgenesis during heat treatment as a way to try to explain why heat worked the way it did.  The trials were done on rats,  rather than humans,  but some clues are better than none.]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,21#msg-21</guid>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 04:37:48 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Greetings</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,20#msg-20</link>
      <author>chris</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Dear Donovan,

  I found a good description on wikipedia under spermatogenesis:

  &quot;Thus, spermatogenesis is the male version of gametogenesis. In mammals it occurs in the male testes and epididymis in a stepwise fashion, and for humans takes approximately 64 days.&quot;

  Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spermatogenesis

  Yours,

    Chris]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,20#msg-20</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:12:21 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Greetings</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,19#msg-19</link>
      <author>torque27</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Hi Chris,

It sounds like you are saying that the heat does not affect the current sperm, but rather the ones which are still to be created?  Is this why it takes 6 weeks after treatment to see the difference?

Please share any medical insights that you have on this topic as the documentation I have managed to find has not really explained the biology very well, just the methods used and the expected results.

Cheers,
Donovan]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,19#msg-19</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 00:05:11 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Greetings</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,18#msg-18</link>
      <author>Silas</author>
      <description><![CDATA[My doctor said that any test before 6 weeks was probably not going to be very informative about the effectiveness of the treatment,  since the normal lifecycle for sperm is 6-8 weeks.

I am lucky in that my doctor was very supportive and offered two free lab tests.  I've done the first and am impatiently waiting for the report.   I plan to take the second at t+4 months or so.]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,18#msg-18</guid>
      <pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:24:58 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Increasing the Cost of Spamming] Spam Taxer</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?5,17,17#msg-17</link>
      <author>chris</author>
      <description><![CDATA[I thought I would start this forum off by summarizing what I've looked into. I own several internet domains, and because I receive all e-mail sent to those domains I get a lot of spam e-mail. Although I can filter it (see other thread), it takes work to set up and maintain a filter, and the higher the proportion of spam I screen out the more likely it is that good messages will be screened out also. To resolve these problems for myself and others, it would be nice to stop spam at the source. It would also be nice if this solution didn't come at the price of legal restrictions on the use of the internet.

  Most spammers send out advertisements for web sites, and get paid by the web site operators. My understanding is that they tend to do this on &quot;bot nets&quot; - groups of private computers that they've broken into and hijacked the resources of. When the use of these bot nets is sold between spammers, it comes to only a few dollars for the use of a computer for its lifetime, so the spammers have very low costs. The web site operators, on the other hand, may actually pay for hosting service, because they want their web sites to be up as much of the time as possible and be able to handle a lot of traffic.

  A few ways to interfere with this scenario:

  1. Increase the traffic at the web sites in a way that does not increase sales. Since the cost of hosting the web sites depends on the volume of traffic, this will increase the cost of doing business, leaving less money for the spammer. This is the ideas I would like to discuss in this forum.

  2. Reduce the number of hijacked PCs sending spam. Spam contains an originating IP address which corresponds with the machine that sent it, at least at the time that it was sent. If there were a way to let the owner of the machine know that it is being used to send spam, he could take measures to stop it. One novel idea I haven't seen followed up would be to send a Windows instant message to the machine. Unfortunately, many people turn off this feature because it too has been used to send spam &quot;instant messages&quot;.

  3. Contact the ISPs/blacklists and have them withdraw service from spam-sending PCs and hosts of spam-advertised web sites. This is a common, straightforward method, but it can't be automated as easily as the first two, and it hasn't been effective in reducing the amount of spam over the last several years it has been practiced.

  The overall vision for #1 is this: An individual receives a spam e-mail and determines which web site it advertises. The individual uses their own personal bandwidth to draw content from the web site. If many of the other people who received the same message do the same thing, it costs the advertiser more to host the web site than was brought in from sales by sending the spam. After enough of this, the advertiser gets wise and stops using spam to advertise, and peace is restored.

  This method has seen some success in projects such as Spam Vampire and Blue Frog. The key to success for these efforts has been to centralize the way that the web site information is gathered, since doing it by hand is a lot of work. Centralization has also been the downside, because it provides a target for the ruthless spammers when they notice that their livelihood is jeopardized. Actually, this lashing out by spammers is the best evidence that the strategy works, and would keep working if only it could be coordinated in a detached way. As long as spammers can stop the campaign by bringing down a &quot;spam vampire&quot; or &quot;blue frog&quot; web site, they can stay in business.

  There are a lot of details to go with this topic, which I will be happy to discuss once people find their way to this forum.

  Chris]]></description>
      <category>Increasing the Cost of Spamming</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?5,17,17#msg-17</guid>
      <pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 11:49:19 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Welcome</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,6,16#msg-16</link>
      <author>chris</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Dear Anthony,

The relationship between the heating and sperm count isn't simple, is it? When I check my own record of using body heat, I see that my sperm count dropped to a few million/mL after ten days, but then returned to normal for a few weeks before dropping to zero. Then recently I noticed that my sperm count had risen to four million/mL - after four years below one million/mL. So it is definitely important to keep checking sperm count regularly to make sure it hasn't recovered.
Maybe four weeks wasn't quite long enough for your sperm count to stay low? Please let me know if your sperm count stays low, and if you are able to dispense with either of the two methods you are using.

Yours,

Chris]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,6,16#msg-16</guid>
      <pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 08:13:32 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Spam Filtering] Searching the spam trash can</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?4,15,15#msg-15</link>
      <author>chris</author>
      <description><![CDATA[I've spent many hours going through the spam folder looking for any good e-mail that got accidentally put there, and I haven't looked through most of the hundreds of thousands of spam messages at all. Sometimes I search for a key word that won't show up in spam, like &quot;ibogaine&quot; or &quot;heat method&quot; and this finds a few messages, but recently I realized that many of the messages I was finding were from people or groups I had either heard from or corresponded with before - and their e-mail addresses will be in my inbox and/or outbox. So I wrote a simple perl script to gather these addresses and search the spam folder for them. The script is a little ugly since I haven't used perl recently and forgot how to pass a hash to a function. I found that the process was more efficient when I excluded certain addresses or domains from the search, such as my own addresses (spam is often sent to me with my own address as the 'from' address) and mail from yahoo, ebay and paypal. The excluded addresses and domains go into avoidfroms.txt, and the addresses found in the spam go into goodfroms.txt. Let me know if you want help setting up the script on your linux box. Here it is:

#!/usr/bin/perl -w

open(IN, &quot;goodfroms.tmp&quot;);

open(IN, &quot;]]></description>
      <category>Spam Filtering</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?4,15,15#msg-15</guid>
      <pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 08:08:52 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Positioning testes in abdomen</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,5,14#msg-14</link>
      <author>chris</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Dear Donovan,

  I tried looking around yesterday for a suitable photo/diagram but haven't found anything suitable yet. I'll keep looking.

  Yours,

    Chris]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,5,14#msg-14</guid>
      <pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 07:24:38 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Greetings</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,13#msg-13</link>
      <author>chris</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Dear Donovan,

  Thanks for posting those details. From the conditions you describe it seems like this should have worked, and maybe it did work, considering that it took six weeks after I began heating before I saw my sperm count drop. It is too bad that having sperm count tested at a lab costs so much. If you (or anyone else) happen to be able to get to Sacramento, California, I can give you a rough estimate of your sperm count with my microscope, and show you how to do it too. Another option is over-the-counter fertility tests. Although most of these tell whether your sperm count is more or less than one million/mL (ideally you want a lower cutoff, like 100,000/mL), they will certainly tell you whether it is too early to pay for an expensive lab test or not. You'll need access to a cheap way to measure sperm count anyway, since you'll want to check now and then to make sure the count hasn't come back up.

  Yours,

    Chris]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,13#msg-13</guid>
      <pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 07:22:36 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Positioning testes in abdomen</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,5,12#msg-12</link>
      <author>torque27</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Hi Chris,

Thanks for the info.

I do not require photos specifically.  Medical diagrams or similar is fine, as long as I can understand the anatomy.

Perhaps I am not genetically suited to this method and do not have the required space as you suggest.

Cheers,
Donovan]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,5,12#msg-12</guid>
      <pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 01:29:04 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Greetings</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,11#msg-11</link>
      <author>torque27</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Hi Chris,

It was a long time ago so this may not be 100% accurate

Frequency = daily for 45 - 50 minutes
Duration = 3 weeks
Temperature = 47 degrees celcius (+/- 1 degree)

It was about a week after the treatment that I was tested.  I didn't do a test before treatment because it is expensive.

Volume 4.0
54 Mill/ml
40% motility

The results of my test were considered normal by the Doctor at the fertility clinic with little or no indication of any treatment.

Cheers,
Donovan]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,11#msg-11</guid>
      <pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 01:19:04 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Positioning testes in abdomen</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,5,10#msg-10</link>
      <author>chris</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Dear Donovan,

  The testes move into spaces directly above the scrotum, although I suspect that some people have more space than others, meaning that this method will only work for some people. Fortunately it may be possible to construct some sort of insulated underwear, which would be better anyway, but it would require some experimentation. A few days ago I was very pleased to discover that puzzlepiece has been linked to by an article in wikipedia about the heating method:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat-based_contraception

  That article links to a description of cryptorchidism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptorchidism), which at least shows proper positioning of a testicle in a chihuahua! I'll see if I can find a picture of an actual person. I'm not comfortable posting photos of myself!

  Yours,

    Chris]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,5,10#msg-10</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 07:50:50 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Greetings</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,9#msg-9</link>
      <author>chris</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Dear Silas and Donovan,

  Could you please post details of what you tried for the heating, such as frequency, duration and temperature, how long after the bath(s) you waited to measure your sperm count, and what your sperm count was before the first heating?

  Thanks,

    Chris]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,9#msg-9</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 07:24:43 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Greetings</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,7#msg-7</link>
      <author>torque27</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Hi Silas,

I tried that exact same method and unfortunately it did not work for me.

Regards,
Donovan]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,7#msg-7</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 07:06:20 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Re: Welcome</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,6,6#msg-6</link>
      <author>Anthony</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Hi Chris

Some time ago we mailed about testicular heating. I want to let you know some of my recent experience.

After noticing that sperm count didn't really drop to 0 I added once a week a heating of the testicals around 45 degrees celsius for 15 minutes. This very quickly reduced spermcount to 0. (Actually the water temperature started at about 48 degrees and dropped in the 15 minutes to 43 degrees centigrade.)

So I thought let's try only this method and stopped with suspensory briefs. I heated my testicals in hot water three times a week for 15 minutes to 45 degrees.  However after about 4 weeks sperm count was around 20 million!

So I am back to your method now....and spermcount was at first still increasing, to around 80 million. Unfortunately. But after a couple of weeks, with suspensory briefs coupled with once a week heating, my spermcount is back to nearly zero.

I have to say that even with spermcounts around 8 million I did not cause any pregnancies, allthough I would not recommend it.]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,6,6#msg-6</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 03:01:24 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Positioning testes in abdomen</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,5,5#msg-5</link>
      <author>torque27</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Hi Chris,

I have read your method of contraception using testicular heating on the internet.

I am considering using this method because my wife has been on the pill for many years and we are concerned about the long term effects on her health.

I am uncertain how exactly one moves the testes into the abdomen?  Where do they enter?  Are there photos on the net showing how one does this procedure?

Any info will be appreciated.

Best Regards,
Donovan]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,5,5#msg-5</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 02:05:19 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Heating Method of Birth Control] Greetings</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,4#msg-4</link>
      <author>Silas</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Wow, first post.

My intro:  I am a 35 year old male trying the wet heat method as described by Dr. Vogeli (sp?).   I have completed the three weeks of heat baths and have just done my first sperm test at t+6 weeks..  no results yet,  but I plan to share them as they come (arrghh.. no pun intended).

Would love to hear from anyone else who tried this or is thinking of it.

Cheers,

Silas]]></description>
      <category>Heating Method of Birth Control</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?2,4,4#msg-4</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:21:25 -0700</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Spam Filtering] spamprobe (linux)</title>
      <link>http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?4,3,3#msg-3</link>
      <author>chris</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Although this forum on spam filtering can relate to any operating system, my own contribution will involve linux. Since I own several domains and receive all e-mail that goes to them, I get a lot of spam. The way I have been handling spam is with a Bayesian spam filter called spamprobe, which compares the words found in spam messages with those found in good messages and learns to recognize the difference. Spamprobe checks e-mail automatically whenever pine (my mail reader) moves it from the spool to my local mbox file. If anyone is interested, I will recall and post the details of how it is set up.]]></description>
      <category>Spam Filtering</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://puzzlepiece.org/forum/read.php?4,3,3#msg-3</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 09:15:40 -0700</pubDate>
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